Comments for DSGNRSteve's Blog http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog The thoughts and musings of Steven E Zimmerman Thu, 12 Jan 2012 09:46:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 Comment on Helvetica: And the Incredible Disservice That It Has Done to Mass Transit Systems by Albert-Jan Pool http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog/helvetica-and-the-incredible-disservice-that-it-has-done-to-mass-transit-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-39 Albert-Jan Pool Thu, 12 Jan 2012 09:46:00 +0000 http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog/?p=430#comment-39 Please note that ‘Neue Helvetica’ is the right way to write the name of that typeface not ‘Helvetica Neue’. ‘Neue’ (new) was placed after ‘Helvetica’ to make it sort directly after ‘Helvetica’ Please note that ‘Neue Helvetica’ is the right way to write the name of that typeface not ‘Helvetica Neue’. ‘Neue’ (new) was placed after ‘Helvetica’ to make it sort directly after ‘Helvetica’

]]> Comment on Helvetica: And the Incredible Disservice That It Has Done to Mass Transit Systems by Andrew Whitacre http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog/helvetica-and-the-incredible-disservice-that-it-has-done-to-mass-transit-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-38 Andrew Whitacre Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:17:00 +0000 http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog/?p=430#comment-38 I can confirm it's <em>definitately</em> Arial in the MBTA's printed material and maps. (I did a mashup of the full system map recently, which required changing station names while matching the type.) And indeed, major signage is in Helvetica. The curled leg in the R in the "HARVARD" gives it away: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rk_pix/1813117902/ I can confirm it’s definitately Arial in the MBTA’s printed material and maps. (I did a mashup of the full system map recently, which required changing station names while matching the type.)

And indeed, major signage is in Helvetica. The curled leg in the R in the “HARVARD” gives it away:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rk_pix/1813117902/

]]> Comment on Helvetica: And the Incredible Disservice That It Has Done to Mass Transit Systems by Agent001 http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog/helvetica-and-the-incredible-disservice-that-it-has-done-to-mass-transit-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-37 Agent001 Thu, 17 Nov 2011 19:14:00 +0000 http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog/?p=430#comment-37 If the Author talks with Tom Briggs, legendary MassArt Design Professor, aond one of the "Cambridge Seven" that designed the system, you would get much more insight into the development of this design SYSTEM, and not dwell on the typeface, which was only in use about 13 years, when this was designed in the 60's. Besides a clearly labeled signage system, the Boston system trumped New Yorks' by the inclusion of modular units to house those grainy B/W photos, and a street map pertinent to the area. The images, and the street map, was intended to show the riders what was directly upstairs at that station. I don't believe Massimo did this in NY. I agree that since then, the strict guidelines originally designed by the 'Seven' have been thrown out the window. Now they use Arial often, and even worse, they use the 'small caps' feature that makes the initial letter too bold.  Those inconsistent line weights drive me nuts. Since I teach type in Boston, this hits close to home. I thatnk you for your article, but it would have been strengthened by a quick chat with Tom "Big Daddy" Briggs. Take care, Mark Carroll Typography Professor Bunker Hill Community College If the Author talks with Tom Briggs, legendary MassArt Design Professor, aond one of the “Cambridge Seven” that designed the system, you would get much more insight into the development of this design SYSTEM, and not dwell on the typeface, which was only in use about 13 years, when this was designed in the 60′s.
Besides a clearly labeled signage system, the Boston system trumped New Yorks’ by the inclusion of modular units to house those grainy B/W photos, and a street map pertinent to the area. The images, and the street map, was intended to show the riders what was directly upstairs at that station.
I don’t believe Massimo did this in NY.
I agree that since then, the strict guidelines originally designed by the ‘Seven’ have been thrown out the window. Now they use Arial often, and even worse, they use the ‘small caps’ feature that makes the initial letter too bold.  Those inconsistent line weights drive me nuts.

Since I teach type in Boston, this hits close to home. I thatnk you for your article, but it would have been strengthened by a quick chat with Tom “Big Daddy” Briggs.

Take care,
Mark Carroll
Typography Professor
Bunker Hill Community College

]]> Comment on Helvetica: And the Incredible Disservice That It Has Done to Mass Transit Systems by naphotomi http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog/helvetica-and-the-incredible-disservice-that-it-has-done-to-mass-transit-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-36 naphotomi Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:46:00 +0000 http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog/?p=430#comment-36 I am so sorry, I posted this as a reply to your comment by accident! haha  I am so sorry, I posted this as a reply to your comment by accident! haha 

]]> Comment on Helvetica: And the Incredible Disservice That It Has Done to Mass Transit Systems by naphotomi http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog/helvetica-and-the-incredible-disservice-that-it-has-done-to-mass-transit-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-35 naphotomi Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:45:00 +0000 http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog/?p=430#comment-35 Your article raises a good point  - small details, or at least small to most people, that subconsciously enter ones mind on a daily basis such as typeface could alter the mood and mindset of the everyday person. But I do not think that focusing so much on changing the typefaces will have that great of an impact. Maybe to those artsy folk and designers who pay attention to these small changes. I think that a mood altering change, though, would be the changing of the fluorescent lighting, the cement walls and floors, etc. I was in New York a few months ago and the changes they have been doing to the subway stations are remarkable. In the underground stations where shops appeared, mosaics flourished on the walls and the overall setting felt cleaner and brighter, I found myself feeling happier to be in them than when I'd be in the older stations with the same dark-wash concrete floors, walls, and ceilings. I found the same thing traveling in Hungary this summer - the underground transportation systems were much nicer and more pleasant to travel in when they had art covering the walls. I do not think that changing the typeface in the remodeled stations would have affected me to the extent that the new artwork and bright colors offered. Your article raises a good point  - small details, or at least small to most people, that subconsciously enter ones mind on a daily basis such as typeface could alter the mood and mindset of the everyday person. But I do not think that focusing so much on changing the typefaces will have that great of an impact. Maybe to those artsy folk and designers who pay attention to these small changes. I think that a mood altering change, though, would be the changing of the fluorescent lighting, the cement walls and floors, etc. I was in New York a few months ago and the changes they have been doing to the subway stations are remarkable. In the underground stations where shops appeared, mosaics flourished on the walls and the overall setting felt cleaner and brighter, I found myself feeling happier to be in them than when I’d be in the older stations with the same dark-wash concrete floors, walls, and ceilings. I found the same thing traveling in Hungary this summer – the underground transportation systems were much nicer and more pleasant to travel in when they had art covering the walls. I do not think that changing the typeface in the remodeled stations would have affected me to the extent that the new artwork and bright colors offered.

]]> Comment on Helvetica: And the Incredible Disservice That It Has Done to Mass Transit Systems by naphotomi http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog/helvetica-and-the-incredible-disservice-that-it-has-done-to-mass-transit-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-34 naphotomi Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:44:00 +0000 http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog/?p=430#comment-34 Your article raises a good point  - small details, or at least small to most people, that subconsciously enter ones mind on a daily basis such as typeface could alter the mood and mindset of the everyday person. But I do not think that focusing so much on changing the typefaces will have that great of an impact. Maybe to those artsy folk and designers who pay attention to these small changes. I think that a mood altering change, though, would be the changing of the fluorescent lighting, the cement walls and floors, etc. I was in New York a few months ago and the changes they have been doing to the subway stations are remarkable. In the underground stations where shops appeared, mosaics flourished on the walls and the overall setting felt cleaner and brighter, I found myself feeling happier to be in them than when I'd be in the older stations with the same dark-wash concrete floors, walls, and ceilings. I found the same thing traveling in Hungary this summer - the underground transportation systems were much nicer and more pleasant to travel in when they had art covering the walls. I do not think that changing the typeface in the remodeled stations would have affected me to the extent that the new artwork and bright colors offered.  Your article raises a good point  - small details, or at least small to most people, that subconsciously enter ones mind on a daily basis such as typeface could alter the mood and mindset of the everyday person. But I do not think that focusing so much on changing the typefaces will have that great of an impact. Maybe to those artsy folk and designers who pay attention to these small changes. I think that a mood altering change, though, would be the changing of the fluorescent lighting, the cement walls and floors, etc. I was in New York a few months ago and the changes they have been doing to the subway stations are remarkable. In the underground stations where shops appeared, mosaics flourished on the walls and the overall setting felt cleaner and brighter, I found myself feeling happier to be in them than when I’d be in the older stations with the same dark-wash concrete floors, walls, and ceilings. I found the same thing traveling in Hungary this summer – the underground transportation systems were much nicer and more pleasant to travel in when they had art covering the walls. I do not think that changing the typeface in the remodeled stations would have affected me to the extent that the new artwork and bright colors offered. 

]]> Comment on Helvetica: And the Incredible Disservice That It Has Done to Mass Transit Systems by Adequate Mate http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog/helvetica-and-the-incredible-disservice-that-it-has-done-to-mass-transit-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-33 Adequate Mate Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:33:00 +0000 http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog/?p=430#comment-33 The typeface in the second image from NY isn't Helvetica, it's Akzidenz (or 'Standard if you like). I know it's not captioned so, but sitting in the middle of an article fixated with Helvetica it seems a mistake. Unimark did not specify Helvetica for the MTA. That happened more recently. http://www.aiga.org/the-mostly-true-story-of-helvetica-and-the-new-york-city-subway/ The typeface in the second image from NY isn’t Helvetica, it’s Akzidenz (or ‘Standard if you like). I know it’s not captioned so, but sitting in the middle of an article fixated with Helvetica it seems a mistake.

Unimark did not specify Helvetica for the MTA. That happened more recently.
http://www.aiga.org/the-mostly-true-story-of-helvetica-and-the-new-york-city-subway/

]]> Comment on Helvetica: And the Incredible Disservice That It Has Done to Mass Transit Systems by Elliot Ross http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog/helvetica-and-the-incredible-disservice-that-it-has-done-to-mass-transit-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-32 Elliot Ross Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:55:00 +0000 http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog/?p=430#comment-32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_Alphabet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_Alphabet

]]> Comment on Helvetica: And the Incredible Disservice That It Has Done to Mass Transit Systems by Thomas Le Ngo http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog/helvetica-and-the-incredible-disservice-that-it-has-done-to-mass-transit-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-31 Thomas Le Ngo Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:55:00 +0000 http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog/?p=430#comment-31 If you haven't already, check out Mark Ovendon's books on the history of transit facilities design. Great stuff. If you haven’t already, check out Mark Ovendon’s books on the history of transit facilities design. Great stuff.

]]> Comment on Helvetica: And the Incredible Disservice That It Has Done to Mass Transit Systems by J-Ray http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog/helvetica-and-the-incredible-disservice-that-it-has-done-to-mass-transit-systems/comment-page-1/#comment-30 J-Ray Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:18:00 +0000 http://www.dsgnrsteve.com/blog/?p=430#comment-30 I like Helvetica too, but you've raised an excellent question. If we want to convince people to use transit, perhaps a more personable typeface should be used. I like Helvetica too, but you’ve raised an excellent question. If we want to convince people to use transit, perhaps a more personable typeface should be used.

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